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I have to agree with you Ralph, and disagree with K2AW, as regards "salt water enhancement." In the 1960's i lived in Key West for a couple of years. I was active in chasing dx and had modest means, being a sailor at Fleet Sonar School, so my station consisted of a Knight T-60 and National NC-300. Antennas were low dipoles(20-30 ft. high) and a windom 20 ft. high at one end and 35 ft. high at the other. My output power was about 15-30 watts on 10-20 meters. I worked piles of dx, on cw, including Don Miller W9WNV/ZK1S at Suwaro Atol. Later, aboard destroyers in the Pacific, North and South Atlantic , Indian , and Artic Oceans, i found the propagation to be excellent, anywhere i went. My power output was 100 watts and my antennas were either verticals or sloping dipoles. I grew up on the east coast of N.C. ,within 300 yds. of salt water. I enjoyed excellent propagation there too. In 1968, i lived in Jacksonville Beach ,Fl. and had a homemade 2 element yagi on 10 meters with .25 wl spacing between the elements(Ref., D.E.) and 30 ft. high, no more than 100 yds from the Atlantic. Europe, Africa and South America were extremely easy to work on cw and ssb with my NC-200 transceiver(100 wts. output).( The f/b on that antenna was 6 s units, yet nowadays i'm given to understand that only 2 or 3 s units is possible. Makes one wonder!) In 1932 Bell Labs conducted test to determine where to locate shore stations for communicating with ships at sea. These tests were conducted in the 66 and 33 meter bands, under both day and night conditions.They reported" attenuation of 8 db to 12 db is observed at a distance of one mile inland for both 33 and 66 meter transmissions." When i read it, it reminded me that when i was a kid and broadcast band dx'ing, i logged WAPE in Jacksonville ,Fl. while living in Morehead City, N.C. In the 60's and 70's, whenever i went home to visit my parents, i'd frequently look for WAPE on the car radio(680 khz. if i remember correctly).At and around my parents house(300 yds. from a salt water sound, i could receive it. But a mile further inland, it became unreadable. Computer simulations of real world conditions cannot tell the whole story. For that matter, humans don't know the whole story, in which to write programs with. There remains much to be learned about propagation and antennas, etc. We won't know it all till we know it all! And thats a very long way off! 73 Roy Lincoln WA4DOU ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sat, 29 Apr 2000 23:12:23 -0700 Ralph Parker <rparker@intergate.ca> writes: > K2KW recently said: > >I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but salt water does NOTHING to > enhance > >a horizontally polarized signal (well, almost nothing, maybe about > 0.1 dB > >advantage per the models). The only advantage of being close to > salt water > >in this case would be no noise sources in that direction, and a > pretty view. > > Not easy for me to accept. I live on a peninsula, about 220' ASL, > with salt > water about 2 miles to my west and 3 miles to my east. My buddy > lives 20 > miles away, 50' ASL on the east side of a small island, with his > tower > about 100' from the shore line, and nothing but salt water for 20 > miles > from 330 degrees to 150 degrees azimuth. We have identical 50' > towers and > modest (nameless) trapped tribanders, similar 6 and 2 meter > antennas, and > similar wire antennas for 160 - 40 meters. > On all bands, 160 to 2 meters, he is consistently able to work > stations > that I can hardly hear. I'd guess the difference to be in excess of > 6 db. > At no time do I have an advantage, so we have ruled out the usual > propagation variables (small footprint, etc). On HF, I'm using an > FT-990 > and he's using an FT-1000D, both barefoot. > He's been active at this location for a year, but we've been > wrestling with > the airwaves for over 30 years, and like to think we know what we're > doing. > I hope my new soon-to-be-erected Force 12 antenna will recover a db > or so. > > VE7XF > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > Force12Talk mailing list provided as a service by Force 12 Antennas, > Inc. > Force 12 Web site: http://www.qth.com/force12 > > Submissions: send to Force12Talk@qth.com > To unsubscribe: send a blank e-mail to Force12Talk-leave@qth.com > Force12Talk Message Archive: http://www.qth.com/force12/list/force12talk > For problems with the list, contact force12@qth.com > > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! 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