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end Barry Kirkwood PhD ZL1DD Signal Hill Homestay 66 Cory Road Palm Beach Waiheke Island 1240 NEW ZEALAND ph/fax 64-9-372-5161 www.waiheke.co.nz/signal.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Kirkwood" <bjk@ihug.co.nz> To: "Jack Wilson" <unixwiz@bellsouth.net> Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [Force 12 Talk] C4SXL vs C4S > Hi Jack: > First off, I think you will be absolutely amazed at the difference between > the F12 (whatever model) at 50ft and the all band vertical. The beam will > hear much better for a start and the improvement will be immediate and > obvious. > The 40m beam is great, just in my opinion not all that much greater than a > rotary 40m dipole at the same height. > Also remember that in all cases we are talking about an > antenna/operator/environment system. > I am in a relatively isolated location in a very isolated country. In Eu 40m > is an RF soup, and maybe if I was there I would be keener on the beam as I > would need every bit of directivity I could get. > Whatever decision you make you will have a good antenna. > 73 > Barry > > > end > Barry Kirkwood PhD ZL1DD > Signal Hill Homestay > 66 Cory Road > Palm Beach > Waiheke Island 1240 > NEW ZEALAND > ph/fax 64-9-372-5161 > www.waiheke.co.nz/signal.htm > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jack Wilson" <unixwiz@bellsouth.net> > To: "Barry Kirkwood" <bjk@ihug.co.nz> > Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 12:00 AM > Subject: Re: [Force 12 Talk] C4SXL vs C4S > > > > Barry, > > > > Thank you for your comments. I appreciate your thoughts and honesty. I had > > thought about the 40 meter solely because I have either always used a > > vertical or a wire ant on 40 and have never had occasion to use someone > > else's 40 m beam to see how it performed so I am kinda going in the blind > > here. Again i appreciate your comments and your time to answer me. 73 Jack > > K4SAC > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Barry Kirkwood" <bjk@ihug.co.nz> > > To: <Force12Talk@qth.com> > > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 11:37 PM > > Subject: Re: [Force 12 Talk] C4SXL vs C4S > > > > > > > Dear Jack, > > > Let me take you through this slowly. > > > > > > 1. Your question was about a buying choice between a C4S and a C4SXL as > I > > > recall. > > > 2. The question comes down to this: Does the benefit of the 40m director > > > outweigh the extra cost, weight, windload etc, by comparison with the > > > tribander and a single 40m rotary dipole? > > > 3. As I said, the gain advantage of the reflector is small, and the f/b > > low > > > or minimal for strong nearer signals which come in at high angles. > > > 4. As I said, if you do a lot of work on 40 then of course the choice > will > > > be in favour of the 40m yagi. > > > 5. These considerations do not relate specifically to F12 or any > > > manufacturer, they are inherent in the physics of the matter. Any two > > > element yagi will show the same characteristics. > > > 6. I have no dissatisfaction with the C4SXL. Quite the contrary. > However, > > I > > > have the beam down > > > at present and plan to remove the 40m reflector because the amount of > time > > I > > > spend > > > on 40 and the small advantage of the reflector is outweighed by the > > > convenience of the short lightweight C4.( Will probably end with C4E). > > > 7. I may come to the view that this is a bad decision. Antenna > evaluation > > is > > > always difficult. In this case I have not done A-B comparisons of the > two > > > configurations, but I have run comparisons between the C4S , the C4SXL > and > > a > > > reference dipole. > > > I hope this clarifies my opinion on the matter. > > > 73 > > > Barry > > > > > > end > > > Barry Kirkwood PhD ZL1DD > > > Signal Hill Homestay > > > 66 Cory Road > > > Palm Beach > > > Waiheke Island 1240 > > > NEW ZEALAND > > > ph/fax 64-9-372-5161 > > > www.waiheke.co.nz/signal.htm > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jack Wilson" <unixwiz@bellsouth.net> > > > To: "Barry Kirkwood" <bjk@ihug.co.nz> > > > Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 3:15 PM > > > Subject: Re: [Force 12 Talk] C4SXL vs C4S > > > > > > > > > > Barry, > > > > > > > > Yours is the 1st negative opinion I have heard about the F12 series. I > > do > > > > want those also....have you had a lot of trouble? I am having a hard > > time > > > > deciding what to get, because in 2 years I have a girl going to > college > > so > > > > this beam will be the only one I get for a few years. I have a 50' > tower > > > to > > > > put it on. If you don't recommend the F12, what beam do you recommend > > for > > > > 20-10 that includes the warc bands? I am very intersted in what you > have > > > to > > > > say so please be honest. Thanks Jack K4SAC > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Barry Kirkwood" <bjk@ihug.co.nz> > > > > To: "Jack Wilson" <unixwiz@bellsouth.net> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 6:42 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [Force 12 Talk] C4SXL vs C4S > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jack: > > > > > I have C4SXL, and am converting back to the C4S as I do not think > the > > > > extra > > > > > boom length, weight and windage and f/b worth the trouble. If I was > a > > > 40m > > > > > specialist might think differently. f/b minimal for close in sigs > > which > > > > come > > > > > in at high angle, not important for distant sigs in most cases. > > > > > Others might disagree. > > > > > 73 > > > > > Barry > > > > > end > > > > > Barry Kirkwood PhD ZL1DD > > > > > Signal Hill Homestay > > > > > 66 Cory Road > > > > > Palm Beach > > > > > Waiheke Island 1240 > > > > > NEW ZEALAND > > > > > ph/fax 64-9-372-5161 > > > > > www.waiheke.co.nz/signal.htm > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Jack Wilson" <unixwiz@bellsouth.net> > > > > > To: <Force12Talk@qth.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 5:11 PM > > > > > Subject: [Force 12 Talk] C4SXL vs C4S > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all, > > > > > > > > > > > > I am in bit of a quandary here. I am torn between ordering the > C4SXL > > > and > > > > > the > > > > > > C4S. I will have it on a 50' self supporting tower using a hygain > > ham > > > IV > > > > > > rotor to turn it. I guess what I am wondering is if anyone on this > > > list > > > > > has > > > > > > had a C4S and then "upgraded" to the C4SXL. How much difference > did > > it > > > > > make > > > > > > on 40? Is the extra "gain" on 40 worth the extra $$$??? I realize > > this > > > > is > > > > > > quite subjective and I am already sold on purchasing a F12 > antenna, > > I > > > am > > > > > > just torn between the 2. I am a dx'er and a small pistol > contester. > > My > > > > > > current antenna is a Butternut HF9V which I have worked about 230 > on > > > it > > > > > > barefoot. I am looking forward to having a beam up. Any thoughts > > would > > > > be > > > > > > welcome. If you wish to take it off list, please e-mail to > > > > k4sac@arrl.net > > > > > > > > > > > > tnx es 73, > > > > > > > > > > > > Jack K4SAC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Force12Talk mailing list provided as a service by Force 12 > Antennas, > > > > Inc. > > > > > > Force12 Web Site: http://www.force12inc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > To Submit Message to the List: Force12Talk@qth.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe and view the Message Archive: see > > > > > http://qth.com/force12/list > > > > > > For problems with the list: contact n4zr@qth.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > Force12Talk mailing list provided as a service by Force 12 Antennas, > Inc. > > > Force12 Web Site: http://www.force12inc.com > > > > > > To Submit Message to the List: Force12Talk@qth.com > > > To unsubscribe and view the Message Archive: see > > http://qth.com/force12/list > > > For problems with the list: contact n4zr@qth.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- Force12Talk mailing list provided as a service by Force 12 Antennas, Inc. 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